More different reaction to tonight's Doctor Who

[dira]

Oh Doctor. You always have to outdo yourself. Nevermind Ten having turned, what, seven or eight people into slightly jaded people who were willing to kill to defend their world from destruction. Eleven just turned the whole human race, for a thousand generations, into people who would kill aliens who weren't particularly hurting them as far as we can tell, without those humans having any choice in the matter or any memory of what they've done. Oh. Snap.

I mean, sure, maybe they're going to crack apart the universe. But what are the odds that they're cracking apart the universe because humans started exterminating them?

Comments

[wealhtheow]

Well, we do know that other races were fleeing the Silence. And we did see a Silent kill that random lady in the bathroom for no perceivable reason. And the Silence did say they had been ruling the humans since there were humans, plus the ominous phrase "your will is ours." The Doctor has never particularly loved races that rule others.

Putting aside that we saw them manipulate people into madness, and saw them cold-bloodedly kill people, they showed absolutely no sign of agreeing to negotiate. I agree that I wish there'd been at least a scene of the Doctor trying to talk the wounded Silence into a peaceful retreat or something and being rebuffed, but I truly don't know what anyone could do to prevent being controlled or killed by the Silence, beyond killing them until they leave humans alone. It seems like negotiating with the Angels, or the Vashta Nerada--they're just too powerful, either you use your one moment of power against them or you lose forever.

I do think it's interesting that 11 is ok with River and Canton using guns--iirc he was always very against them in the past. So perhaps he is changing his entire outlook on violence and killing. I'll be sad if violence becomes the only tool in his tookit--when I was growing up I always loved his nonviolent clever solutions.

[dira]

I think part of what bugs me is that he sort of frames what he did, starting a war--leading a revolution, yeah, but one he's not actually sticking around for--as a clever nonviolent solution. He didn't personally kill anyone! The Silence ordered humanity to kill them! It's just a little bit too "Stop punching yourself, why are you punching yourself?" for the Doctor, in my head.

OTOH I read a really brilliant piece of alien-pov fic today and maybe I am just leaping too quickly into the POV of the bad guys. *g*

[laurashapiro]

Yes, I went there, too. I want to believe it's intentional and that there will still be hell to pay.

[wealhtheow]

There's nothing more fascinating than looking at a story from a different perspective!

To me, the Silence ordering humanity to kill them was more like a fulfillment of living by the sword, dying by the sword. They'd used their powers for so long to destroy people and control humanity, and now that very power was turned against them. It felt like poetic justice to me, but I think that's at least partly because I am easily sold by swelling triumphant background music.

[dira]

I mean, and the other half is--at the moment I was watching it, I was thinking, he's finally learned to think like a human, like Metacrisis!Ten did in destroying the Daleks and like Original-Recipe!Ten refused to. Because that is absolutely a glorious and triumphant human thing to do, to declare an absolute war against your oppressors no matter what it costs any individual person, because those aliens must be gotten the hell off our planet.

...But that hasn't been the way the Doctor's played it, generally, and the more I think about it the more it bothers me. Which is frustrating because I thought it was COMPLETELY AWESOME while I was watching it. *g*

[dira]

Yeah, I keep telling myself Moff is smart and he will come around the corner on this.

[oliviacirce]

I would say that the odds on that last point are very high, yeah.

[wealhtheow]

The more I think about it, the more I like your idea of the Doctor's plan being what pushes the Silence to crack the universe. Cuz yeah, the Silence are killers and show no sign of stopping--but since humans and their media spread across the universe, the Doctor just backed the Silence up against a wall. And there's nothing scarier than a cornered Silent!

Plus, I love when there are ramifications for huge sweeping choices.

(Also, I love the phrase "original-recipe!Ten"!)

[amalthia]

I'm still curious as to how and when Amy gave birth to a kid that can regenerate! (assuming the kid is Amy's)

"But what are the odds that they're cracking apart the universe because humans started exterminating them?"

I think there are good odds that this event started the cracking of the universe. I'm very curious to see how this season plays out.

[iamshadow]

River also had that icky sick moment, and the doctor never scanned her, so maybe they've both got a case of Schroedinger's pregnancy.

[neotoma]

"Stop punching yourself, why are you punching yourself?"

Seven did that *all the time*. Most notable, in Remembrance of the Daleks he created an elaborate trap baited with Time Lord technology and told Davros, 'don't push that button!' When Davros of course pushed the button, the Time Lord black-hole machine (Hand of Omega, actually) went straight into Skaros' sun, instead of into Sol as Davros had intended.

The Doctor is a *bastard* when he wants to be.

[ellen_fremedon]

I think part of what bugs me is that he sort of frames what he did, starting a war--leading a revolution, yeah, but one he's not actually sticking around for--as a clever nonviolent solution.

It's more a solution that allows for the option of non-violence-- the Silence can hide, or they can leave (they do have those weirdly TARDIS-like ships), and in either case they'll be fine; they only get slaughtered if they show themselves to humans.

But I can really see it having long-term ramifications that the Doctor hasn't thought of-- perhaps far in the future, when humans have spread through the galaxy and there is no place to hide from them.

(And those spaceships bother me more and more. The Silence don't have their own technology, the Doctor says. They push humans to start the Apollo program because they want a spacesuit. So where did they get all these hidden control rooms that look and act like TARDISes?

I need to watch "The Lodger" again.)

[aurora_novarum]

And then I wondered if this was neither. Like what about Ten's daughter from that genetic warrior world? If she regenerated, would she regenerate as a more natural age?

It's all very confusing.

[sockich]

I've been thinking about this all day and...well, first of all, I can't, for the life of me, find any kind of sympathy for these particular aliens. They've been (in their own words) ruling humanity from the shadows since the beginning in a way that is just straight up fucking evil (human will is literally theirs, they can make people do anything and no one ever knows. they don't even leave people the possibility to try and fight. that is just way fucking worse than simply killing/torturing, imo. there's no hope, because no one knows it's happening) and also apparently enjoy killing random people for shit and giggles ("her name was Joy").

Second of all, the command wasn't "you must kill us on sight" or even "kill us on sight" it was "you should kill us on sight" which does leave a possibility of choice. You should, but if you can't, you can't. I don't like that, again, there's a war being fought and no one ever knows, but at least now, humans have a fighting chance. And it doesn't require that people chase the aliens, so if they just leave humanity alone, they're golden.

Idk, maybe I'm just bloodthirsty. And it's weird, because usually I don't particularly care if aliens try to exterminate/rule humanity, but apparently I do require they let us know it's happening. ;)

But I do agree there will be consequences to this (though I refuse to lay the blame for this on the Doctor. they're cracking open the universe because they chose/their previous actions led a to a place where they had to crack open the universe).

[wealhtheow]

I was feeling a little squirrely about the fate of the Silence once humanity gets really spread out, but then I realized--by the time humanity is forming a third bountiful empire or whatever, they've probably lost the recording of the Moon Landing. By the time the Silence would be left with few areas to hid, very very few people will probably have seen the footage.

[amalthia]

that's right!!!