hey, so.

[dira]

A question for people who have seen Inception. Maybe two questions. Because I need to figure things out the better to plot fic with.

Comments will hopefully be full of spoilers soon.


1) So what do we think happened at the end? Perhaps more importantly, what do we think happened after the end? I mean, I have constructed what I feel is a reasonable and well-supported interpretation, but I am curious whether there is some sort of consensus to which fic should respond.

2) Should Arthur have/have had/be having sex (real or dream, real-in-dream or projection-in-dream) with: Eames, Ariadne, Dom, Dom and Ariadne, Eames and Ariadne, Dom and Mal, Miles, Saito, Yusuf, Jack Harkness, all of the above, etc.?

So I was attempting to describe how Arthur relates to Dom to someone who hasn't seen the movie and found myself saying that he was the Ianto to Dom's depressingly celibate Jack Harkness, and then:

Ariadne = GWEN!
Eames = Owen!?
Yusuf = ...Tosh?
Miles = THE DOCTOR
MAL = ROSE

Saito = ...John Hart?
Fischer Jr.= Your choice of poor hapless citizen of Cardiff? Maybe whatsisname who fell into the Rift?

Anyway, the point is: Arthur is my favorite and I feel there should be lots of porn about him in the world. HE MADE HIS OWN GRAVITY OKAY.

Oh look, there is porn! spuffyduds wrote Arthur/Eames for kink_bingo!

Comments

[unfinishedidea]

1) Still thinking about it. I think there could be any number of legitimate interpretations, though.

2) EAMES EAMES OMG EAMES. ANYWHERE, ANYHOW.

[dira]

EAMES YES YAY

[kuwdora]

EAMES DEFINATELY EAMES

also I want some epic to Dom/Saito, yum.

[dira]

Dom/Saito clearly has LOADS of possibilities. But Arthur/Eames is practically canon!

[themeletor]

i was going to say something, but then unfinishedidea commented. and pretty much, just, yeah, what she said, with the option for more later when i has brain.

also, FUCK YEAH ARTHUR MADE HIS OWN GRAVITY. BECAUSE HE IS JUST THAT GODDAMN BADASS. (relatedly, i wish joseph gordon-levitt could become an actual adult in my head. i don't think he will ever not be a doofy kid, though this was the closest he has ever come to that possibility. IF HE WOULD EVER BE SO GOOD AS TO ACTUALLY AGE, THAT MIGHT HELP :[ )

[dira]

ARTHUR WINS AT EVERYTHING.

[kuwdora]

oh look, more Arthur/Eames as found on AO3: Not Dreaming Now by JenNova.

[dira]

Oooh, thank you for the link! ♥

[rheanna]

(1) Also still thinking about it. I think maybe how you interpret the end depends on how sympathetic you end up finding Cobb. You could read the story as being about him letting go of his guilt over his wife's death and his role in it, and moving on to a place where he can focus outwards, on his children, instead of purely inwards, which was the trap he and Molly fell into. Look at it that way, and the spinning top in the final shot wobbles and falls, because he's earned his reality.

On the other hand, I think it's very possible to read Cobb as a destructive and self-centred character who messes up the lives of absolutely everyone he comes into contact with -- he is responsible for his wife's mental instability and her eventual suicide, his kids are left without either parent while he's on the run, he knowingly places his entire team in huge danger. Sure, he has guilt, but he doesn't use it constructively to move on; he wallows in it. So maybe the ending is him opting out of reality completely and getting the punishment he deserves.

I think I could go either way on it, although by the end of the film I found Cobb more unsympathetic than sympathetic. I don't think the guy's subconscious was un-fucked-up enough to create an ideal dreamworld containing his kids, which suggests that the last scene was real (or that the movie ended right before his mind started to screw things up). On the other hand, if the end of the movie was back in the *real* world, then it's very suspicious that Saito and Cobb woke up sane in spite of spending decades of subjective time trapped in the dream.

I did think that last shot was awesome, though. When I saw it, there was an audible intake of breath in the theatre when the movie ended -- that kind of mass audience reaction doesn't happen a lot where I am.

Long comment is long, sorry! I saw the movie on Saturday night and have been mulling it over ever since; clearly I need to write a post about it.

[dira]

I, huh. I suppose I found Cobb sympathetic in a way that didn't preclude thinking that he had in fact totally fucked up his life in ways he wasn't entirely aware of--the way it never really penetrates his mind that his children are growing up without him. It just occurs to me now, as I type this--surely an ordinary father would have pictures of them, would ask grandma to send pictures? But of course Cobb doesn't.

So I think that Cobb's brain is scrambled egg by now--I think he chose a death of sorts by staying in limbo even after he'd rejected Mal, maybe because he realized Saito couldn't help him, and he could only ever go home now in his dreams. Maybe he didn't have any control over the process. Maybe his egg was already half-fried before this job. But now he's lost to the actual world and his actual children forever, and he lives in a not-quite-accurate-but-happy-enough projection. (I totally reject the possibility that that last scene is real--Miles shouldn't be there, the kids should be older, it's all just too easy, etc.)


My audience also had the awesome galvanized reaction, though, this gasp-groan-laugh of WAIT WHAT NO. It was pretty cool.

[rheanna]

I totally reject the possibility that that last scene is real--Miles shouldn't be there, the kids should be older, it's all just too easy, etc.)

Yes, good point - I'd forgotten when I typed the comment, but when I saw the movie I remember thinking that Cobb's dad was supposed to be based in Paris and it's too convenient that he's waiting in LA. And where is it supposed to be? Cobb's wanted for murder in the US, so the family home must be there, but if the grandparents are looking after the kids and they're in Paris, then the house Cobb returns to should have been lying empty for several years. Yet it's as warm and friendly and inhabited as it was in his dream.

You've convinced me! It IS far more likely that he's buried deep in limbo. (I guess that means no rescue for Saito either, poor guy). So... everyone else woke up? Presuming the 'kick' worked and that part wasn't an element of Cobb's happy-ending dream, I guess they did.

Interesting point about the lack of photos -- although I can see Cobb feeling guilty enough to inflict the punishment on himself of not allowing himself to have any photos, in the same way he won't look at his dream-children. The detail that jumped out at me in the movie was that Cobb can't tell his kids apart on the phone -- although I guess there's not as much differentiation in young children's voices as those of adults. Still, you'd think their father would be able to tell them apart. (If nothing else, it demonstrates that Cobb doesn't phone home as regularly as he might.)

[dira]

But if the kids were in Paris then he would presumably be more able to visit them? I think? Unless he expects his mother-in-law to turn him in, which I suppose is a possibility. *g* I had thought that the kids stayed in LA and their grandmother moved there to take care of them, although that would make it trickier for grandpa to take them presents, so. Hm.

I was also struck by his not being able to tell their voices apart--because Philippa's voice is very distinct from James' when we do hear it, mainly in that Philippa sounds much older, maybe older than Dom wants to remember that she is. But, also, probably an indicator that he's not calling home very often to talk to the children.

My assumption is that everyone but Dom and possibly Saito woke up okay--we saw them all get back to the top dream-level with the van, so they should be all right with whatever kick they arranged for the flight attendant (or pilot? sudden turbulence?) to administer, or just waiting until the sedative wears off. Even if that leaves them hanging out in Ariadne's maze for a week--hopefully she built in some nice peaceful hotels. *g*

Saito is sort of an open question. When we last see him he's reaching for the gun--maybe to shoot himself and free himself, give or take the trauma of having grown old in the dreamspace? I mean, Dom asserts that he came back out of fifty years in Limbo pretty functional, only old before his time, and he seems to assert that Mal would likewise have been fine if not for the inception. So I would accept Saito being okay, but, yeah, I'm pretty sure Dom's a goner.

[rheanna]

But if the kids were in Paris then he would presumably be more able to visit them? I think?

Oh, yes, you're right - the kids must be in the US. Which *would* make it trickier for the grandfather to take them presents, but otoh he'd still be seeing them more regularly than Cobb. Hmm, there's a bit of vagueness about the logistics of all of that; it feels like the script's been revised at some point so that something that probably originally made sense doesn't quite in the final version. Still, none of that detracts from your original point, ie it's just too nice and neat for Cobb's father to just be there with the kids at the end so everyone's together and happy.

I like the idea that Saito could have made it back, even if Cobb was lost permanently -- I think I will adopt this as my personal canon. (Heh, apparently I'm determined to drag a happy ending out of this film by hook or by crook.)

[dira]

I am also still trying to figure out who the hell Michael Caine is--I don't think he's Dom's father, as he addresses Dom as having been his student and I think Dom calls him by first name. Which would make him Mal's father, which seems ... sort of improbable, given how friendly he still is to Dom after Mal's death, although surely there is plenty of dysfunctional relationship for everyone and no need to ration it. But I wonder if he wasn't a mentor to them both and sort of an adopted grandfather to their children?

[dira]

BUT I am all for dragging all the available happy endings out of this. I like to imagine that Arthur goes and visits Dom in the happyfantasyland and Dom lectures him about how he should visit more often and Arthur never lets on.

andthentheyhavesex.

Ahem.

[rheanna]

I don't think he's Dom's father, as he addresses Dom as having been his student and I think Dom calls him by first name.

Ah, I missed that - I thought he was Cobb's father (even with the completely different accents). He does have that line where he says Ariadne is "better than you were", which does imply some kind of mentor/student relationship, now you mention it.

andthentheyhavesex.

Not seeing a problem with that. :)

[libitina]

Well, we meet Miles, Cobb is giving him a specific task of delivering presents to the children, so he could be in the states. Being in the right airport is a little bit more dodgy... but I'd be most likely to blame Ariadne for tipping him off.

[jiele]

I don't think the guy's subconscious was un-fucked-up enough to create an ideal dreamworld containing his kids, which suggests that the last scene was real (or that the movie ended right before his mind started to screw things up).

Didn't Dom tell Ariadne that he didn't build anymore because his wife wouldn't let him? So since he's gotten rid of her pesky projection, which never believes the world is real, wouldn't he be able to build whatever sort of dream he wanted?

/random lurker